Eli Mandel and D.G. Jones at Sir George Williams University, The Poetry Series, 7 March 1969

CLASSIFICATION

Swallow ID:
1276
Partner Institution:
Concordia University
Source Collection Label:
SGWU Reading Series-Concordia University Department of English fonds
Series:
The Poetry Series
Sub Series:
SGWU Reading Series-Concordia University Department of English fonds

ITEM DESCRIPTION

Title:
Eli Mandel and D.G. Jones at Sir George Williams University, The Poetry Series, 7 March 1969
Title Source:
Cataloguer
Title Note:
"JONES & MANDEL I006/SR43" written on sticker on the spine of the tape's box. JONES & MANDEL refers to D.G. Jones and Eli Mandel. "I006-11-043" written on sticker on the reel "Poetry - 7th Mar/69 Eli Mandel & Jones -1 I086-11-034" written on the spine of the tape's box. Jones refers to D.G. Jones. "1 Mandel I086-11-034" written on sticker on the reel. "RT 510" written on sticker on the front of the tape's box and written on the back of the tape's box.
Language:
English
Production Context:
Documentary recording
Genre:
Reading: Poetry
Persistent URL:
http://archives.concordia.ca/I086
Identifiers:
[I006-11-043, I086-11-034]

Rights

CREATORS

Name:
Jones, Douglas Gordon
Dates:
1929-2016
URL:
http://viaf.org/viaf/41883605
Role:
"Author", "Performer"
Notes:
Poet and critic Douglas Gordon (D.G.) Jones was born in Bancroft Ontario in 1929. He completed his B.A. at McGill University in 1952 and an M.A. at Queen’s University in 1954, writing a thesis on Ezra Pound. Jones’ first poems were encouraged by Louis Dudek and Raymond Souster in his publications in Contact Press and Delta. His first collection of poetry, Frost on the Sun (Contact Press, 1957) was followed by The Sun is Axeman (University of Toronto Press, 1961), Phrases from Orpheus (Oxford University Press, 1967) and a winner of a Governor General’s Award for Poetry, Under the Thunder of the Flowers Light Up the Earth (Coach House Press, 1977), A Throw of Particles (General Publishing Company, 1983), Balthazar (Coach House Press, 1988) and The floating garden (Coach House Press, 1995). Jones taught first at the Royal Military College from 1954-5, the Ontario Agricultural College from 1955-1961, he moved to Quebec and taught at Bishop’s University from 1961-1963, and finally at the Universite de Sherbooke, from 1963-1994. His book, Butterfly on rock: a study of themes and images in Canadian literature (University of Toronto Press, 1970) on Canadian criticism has proven to be important in the shaping of that field's literature. He founded Ellipse in 1969, the only Canadian magazine in which both English and French poetry was reciprocally translated. Jones’ own translations include Paul-Marie Lapointe’s The terror of the snows (University of Pittsburgh Press, 1976), The march to love: Selected poems of Gaston Miron (International Poetry Forum, 1986), Normand de Bellefeuille’s Categorics, one, two & three (Coach House Press, 1992) which won the Governor General’s Award for translation and Emile Martel’s For orchestra and solo poet (Muses’ Co, 1996). D.G. Jones was made an Officer of the Order of Canada in 2007. Jones died in 2016.
Name:
Mandel, Eli
Dates:
1922-1992
URL:
http://viaf.org/viaf/59095399
Role:
"Author", "Performer"
Notes:
Poet, critic and editor Eli Mandel was born Elias Wolf Mandel in Estevan, Saskatchewan in 1922. He grew up in Regina, until the Second World War when he joined the Army Medical Corps. Upon his return, he studied at the University of Saskatchewan, earning his B.A. in 1949, going on to complete his M.A. in 1950. Mandel then moved east, where he received a Ph.D. in 1957 from the University of Toronto. His early poetry was published in magazines like CIV/N and Contact, and in 1954 Contact Press published his collection “Minotaur poems” in Trio with Gael Turnbull and Phyllis Webb. Mandel taught English at College Militaire Royal de Saint Jean, University of Alberta and York University in Toronto, as well as serving as visiting professor and writer-in-residence later on in his career. He also wrote many important essays on Canadian literature, art and society, promoting Canadian writers. Poetry 62 (Ryerson Press, 1961), Mandel’s first anthology, co-edited with Jean-Guy Pilon, collected the works of (then) little-known writers Al Purdy, Milton Acorn, D.G. Jones, Alden Nowlan, Leonard Cohen and John Robert Colombo. His second collection of poems was published in Fuseli Poems (Contact Press, 1960), followed by Black and Secret Man (Ryerson Press, 1964), and An Idiot Joy (Hurtig Press, 1967), which won the Governor General’s award. A collection of eight essays by Mandel that had been presented as radio talks for CBC was published in Criticism: the silent-speaking words in 1966 (CBC). His later anthologies include Five modern Canadian poets (Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1970), English poems of the twentieth century (Macmillan, 1971), Contexts of Canadian Criticism (University of Chicago Press, 1971), Eight more Canadian poets (Holt, Rinehart and Winston, 1972), and Poets of contemporary Canada: 1960-1970 (Macmillan, 1972) which published Joe Rosenblatt and bill bissett’s first collections of poetry. Mandel’s other works include Stony Plain (Porcepic Press, 1973), Crusoe (Anansi, 1973), Out of Place (Porcepic Press, 1977), the long poem Mary Midnight (Coach House Press, 1979), Life Sentence (Porcepic Press, 1981), Dreaming backwards: selected poems (General Publishing, 1981), the collections of essays Another Time (Porcepic, 1977), and The family romance (Turnstone, 1986) as well as a book-length study of his colleague, Irving Layton called The Poetry of Irving Layton (Coles, 1969). An important figure in Canadian literature, Eli Mandel died in Toronto on September 3, 1992.

CONTRIBUTORS

Name:
Unspecified
Role:
"Recordist"
Name:
Bowering, George
Dates:
1935-
URL:
http://viaf.org/viaf/34469976
Role:
"Series organizer", "Presenter"

MATERIAL DESCRIPTION

Recording Type:
Analogue
AV Type:
Audio
Material Designation:
Reel to Reel
Physical Composition:
Magnetic Tape
Extent:
1/4 inch
Playing Speed:
3 3/4 ips
Track Configuration:
Half-track
Playback Mode:
Mono
Tape Brand:
Scotch
Sound Quality:
Good
Recording Type:
Analogue
AV Type:
Audio
Material Designation:
Reel to Reel
Physical Composition:
Magnetic Tape
Extent:
1/4 inch
Playing Speed:
3 3/4 ips
Track Configuration:
Half-track
Playback Mode:
Mono
Tape Brand:
Scotch
Sound Quality:
Good
Physical Condition:
First part of the tape is repeated from the end of I086-11-034

DIGITAL FILE DESCRIPTION

File URL:
https://files.spokenweb.ca/concordia/sgw/audio/all_mp3/eli_mandel_i086-11-034.mp3
Show Content
File Path:
files.spokenweb.ca>concordia>sgw>audio>all_mp3
Duration:
01:01:57
Size:
148.7 MB
Content:
eli_mandel_i086-11-034.mp3 [File 1 of 2] George Bowering 00:00:00 ...start with the poesy, I've been asked to announce that on Friday, i.e., what's this the seventh? Two weeks from tonight, March the 21st at 9 o’clock. in Room 653, [Barnes (?)] willing, there will be a program, I guess within the auspices of the Fine Arts department, the Ira Cohen , New York film maker, and poet will be showing three of his films, as far as I know for the first time in Montreal . That's two weeks tonight at 9 in 653. When I was asked to introduce Eli Mandel , and D.G. Jones , I said, 'that's ridiculous', Canadian poetry being the way it is, they already know each other. And after the moment of hilarity I was brought to my senses, and I began to think that it really did make a lot of sense that we do have Doug Jones and Eli Mandel reading on the same program. I can remember in 1961 when Poetry 62 came out, Canadian poetry being the way it is [audience laughter], Poetry 62 was edited by Jean-Guy Pilon I believe and Eli Mandel, being a bilingual book, and at the time the poem that struck me as the most interesting was the long poem by D.G. Jones, the most interesting in that anthology, and I therefore, felt kind of warm, without having them, to both of them to Doug's poem and Eli's great taste for putting it in the anthology. And then I thought that there was this kind of confluence going on and I began to see all kinds of other things happening too, for instance, they both had their first books published by Contact Press, that published the first books of most of the important Canadian poets, and they now have seen their careers sort of criss-cross one another in a kind of a funny way because they each have three books, except that Eli has three and a third, which is also kind of Canadian, and I thought it was kind of interesting because not only is there a kind of parallel going on, and they both in 1967, for instance, turned out very good books of poetry, but there's a kind of uh, they'll be kind of an interesting contrast I think in tonight's program because I've always considered that Doug Jones is sort of the best of the Ontario Wasp poets [audience laughter], and Eli Mandel is the best of the Western Jewish poets and they both deal with essential problems that seem to expose their two opposing and therefore contrary and conjugal, you might almost say, attitudes towards the business of writing poems. So we're going to start off with Eli's reading, and then have something like a ten minute break, and then we'll have Doug Jones' reading. I should mention that of those two books, Eli's is called An Idiot Joy and it shared the Governor General's Award given in 1968, and published by Hurtig, Edmonton publisher, who is very pleased to get the Governor General's Award, and Doug Jones' book is Phrases from Orpheus, published by Oxford Press , two books that would be well worth investing both your heaven, forbid, money and your imagination upon. I'm probably not going to say anything before D.G. Jones comes to read, so I'm not expecting to come up here and spout for five or ten minutes before he reads and I'm not going to spout any longer before Eli reads. So I'd first like to introduce to you Mr. Eli Mandel. Audience 00:05:01 Applause. Eli Mandel 00:05:29 I think George might have carried the parallel of contrasts and comparisons a little further had he wanted to, or chosen to, or had he known about certain very intimate details about Doug's life and my life. But I don't propose to go into those myself right now either [audience laughter]. Instead, I'm going to read, primarily from An Idiot Joy, but also from Black and Secret Man, which was an earlier book and also from one or two manuscript poems that I've been working on recently. I want to start with a poem called "Signatures" and although I can say a lot about a number of poems that I've written, I'm not sure I can say much about this except that as will be obvious to you I think, the imagery is drawn from the Vietnam conflict, though I don't know that the poem is necessarily about that. Can you hear me with this mic? Some people at the back are saying 'no'. Can you hear me now? Eli Mandel 00:07:00 Reads "Signatures" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:09:27 This poem is called "Neither Here Nor There". Eli Mandel 00:09:33 Reads "Neither Here Nor There" [published later in Crusoe: Poems Selected and New]. Eli Mandel 00:10:28 This is a poem from Black and Secret Man and it's called "The Direction is North Until the Pole", and I suppose it's one of the few poems I've written that I would call a Canadian poem, that is to say it draws on a number of specific images from the Canadian landscape and therefore I have to annotate this poem. I have to tell you that the Fleming mentioned in the last line of the poem was once a Minister of Finance in the federal government, that just proves how transient political poems really are. I think all the rest of this should be clear, hockey is a game that's played in Canada . Eli Mandel 00:11:16 Reads "The Direction is North Until the Pole" from Black and Secret Man. Eli Mandel 00:13:24 This is one of my prophetic poems. I think I've written a lot of really prophetic poems. This poem is called "Departure" and it tells about leaving Edmonton. Everybody who has read the poem believes that I wrote it when I decided to leave Edmonton, either for the first time or the second time, I've left there twice, as a matter of fact, I didn't write it when I decided to leave in Edmonton, I wrote it when I arrived in Edmonton. Eli Mandel 00:13:53 Reads "Departure" [from Black and Secret Man]. Eli Mandel 00:14:37 A little poem about one of my perversions, this is about making love to pregnant women, I think, I'm not sure if there's a technical name for that but the perversion appears in the poem. The poem's called "Cassandra" and it's about a prophetess, Cassandra , you'll remember was the woman that Agamemnon brought home with him to his wife, Clytemnestra , and this, so angered Clytemnestra, aside from the fact that Agamemnon had killed one of their daughters, that she killed Agamemnon, but Cassandra was a Prophetess, like Prophetesses, was given the power to tell the truth and was never believed. Some of the imagery in this poem is taken from the story of Cassandra, and the rest from my perversions. Eli Mandel 00:15:39 Reads "Cassandra" [from Black and Secret Man]. Eli Mandel 00:17:00 Reads "The Madness of our Polity" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:17:46 "Whence Cometh Our Help?", the title is taken from the Psalms , and there are a number of images of the Psalms, in the poem. Or images from the Psalms. Eli Mandel 00:18:04 Reads "Whence Cometh Our Help?" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:19:03 This poem is called "Manner of Suicide", and it's the closest thing I've come to writing a found poem, in that all the material in the poem, the words are taken from two sources, except for the first line. One is Karl Menninger's Man Against Himself and the other, the Jewish Daily Prayer Book. There are twenty-six ways listed here of committing suicide, they're all ways that Menninger lists and documents, and he lists them in the order in which I give them here, and this list, which I give, is then followed by some comments he makes about those ways of committing suicide and a passage from the prayer book. Eli Mandel 00:20:11 Reads "Manner of Suicide" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:23:24 In An Idiot Joy I wrote a number of poems which were, which used two primary images, the image of the moon and the image of the sea, and these are love poems. I suppose the interesting thing in them to me, aside from the personal sense that I feel about them, is that with each of the poems, whether it's with the image of the moon or the image of the sea, or both, I keep trying different technical things in the poetry, and so far as I'm concerned, I've done some more interesting technical things in this than anywhere else, but primarily, the poems talk about the moon and the sea, and seabirds and women and a woman. Eli Mandel 00:24:30 Reads "Woman in the Moon" from An Idiot Joy. Eli Mandel 00:26:12 Reads "The Explanations of the Moon” [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:27:32 This is one of the sea poems, in the sequence, called "Listen, the Sea", and the title comes from King Lear , though actually, I had become aware of it of course when I knew that Keats had written a sonnet using this, but the technique is neither Shakespearean nor Keatsean, nothing of the kind. Eli Mandel 00:28:00 Reads "Listen, the Sea" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:29:01 And "Marina", who is a daughter of the sea. Eli Mandel 00:29:09 Reads "Marina" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:30:46 Well something quite different. I think I should dedicate this to George Bowering, because I wrote the poem after I had been… Unknown 00:30:56 [Cut or edit made in tape. Unknown amount of time elapsed]. Eli Mandel 00:30:57 And I would have to apologize for this, but the last thing in the world that I wanted to do was apologize, I'd prefer anything but that, I mean this is pretty simple-minded simplistic psychology, of the worst order I suppose, I just--I'm writing a poem about how stupid I felt at that particular moment. Eli Mandel 00:31:17 Reads "The Apology" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:34:34 This is the poem I like to think of as the one that one would put in a time capsule, it's called "Letter to be Opened Later" and presumably each one of us wants to immortalize oneself, and imagine, you know, two thousand years later the time capsule being opened and then they can read your letter. This is my letter, to be opened later. Eli Mandel 00:35:12 Reads "Letter to be Opened Later" [published later in Crusoe: Poems Selected and New ]. Eli Mandel 00:36:09 I'm going to read a lyric, it's a very short poem, but I'd like to read this one anyhow. It's called "To My Children" and it's based upon both an odd and rather terrifying coincidence in my life and a curious Jewish tradition. The Jewish tradition is that you name a child after the nearest dead relative, the relative who has died most recently and who is closest to one, and it so happened that my mother died, my daughter was born, my father died and my son was born. And I wrote this poem about the naming of the children. It's called "To My Children". Eli Mandel 00:37:08 Reads "To My Children" [from Black and Secret Man]. Eli Mandel 00:38:00 Now I'm going to finish this reading with two poems, one is called "The Meaning of the I Ching" and the other "Cosmos: the Giant Rose"--three poems, I'm sorry. I'm going to read "Pictures in an Institution" as well. "The Meaning of the I Ching", the I Ching as you probably know is a book of divination, it's the oldest book of divination known, and when I first heard about it, I looked at the book before I opened it and I wondered about the very simple notion of a book that old telling my future. How could I be contained in this ancient book? And I wrote this poem. Now it seems to me that there is something remarkable here, it's one claim I will make for the poem, at least, in the poem, is the first time I used the phrase "earth upon earth" and the very first hexagram that I cast when I opened the book. The book tells fortunes with what are called hexagrams and hexagrams are given various names, the very first one that I cast was the hexagram "earth upon earth" and that's simply something that happened whether it means that the poem is prophetic or magical, I don't know. Eli Mandel 00:39:36 Reads "The Meaning of the I Ching" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:43:18 I'm going to finish now reading "Pictures in an Institution". This is the most personal poem I've ever written, and I don't want to read anything after that, so I'm going to finish with this. "Pictures in an Institution". I think all I need to say about this is that it plays off notices against some personal experiences and I think that'll be plain enough. Eli Mandel 00:43:43 Reads "Pictures in an Institution" [from Trio: First Poems by Gael Turnbull, Phyllis Webb, and Eli Mandel]. Eli Mandel 00:47:40 Thank you. Audience 00:47:41 Applause. Unknown 00:47:51 [Cut or edit made in tape. Unknown amount of time elapsed]. Unknown 00:47:53 Ambient Sound [voices]. George Bowering 00:48:22 I'd like to help you welcome now, D.G. Jones. Audience 00:48:27 Applause. D.G. Jones 00:48:60 I'm going to do this because I'm thirsty. It's a little disturbing but I've had a suspicion that this was becoming true for some time, in the last few years, that pretty soon you won't be able to tell the Jew from the Wasp, anyway [audience laughter]. It's getting more disconcerting all the time how similar certain things are between me and Eli Mandel [audience laughter]. I just hope he's a very good person and lives a long life and has great success in the future [audience laughter]. The main thing I want to read tonight is a little bit like Eli's last poem [audience laughter]. But it takes a lot more time to get itself said, for good or ill, and I'd like to read a few, a couple shorter poems anyway, before starting that longer poem which takes up a fair amount of the time. I'll read the first book from the, I mean...[laughter], I'll read the first poem from the book which old oriental George Bowering told you about at the beginning of the program. This poem's called "The Perishing Bird". D.G. Jones 00:51:12 Reads "The Perishing Bird" [from Phrases from Orpheus]. D.G. Jones 00:53:16 A poem called "Summer is a Poem by Ovid". D.G. Jones 00:53:34 Reads "Summer is a Poem by Ovid" [from Phrases from Orpheus]. D.G. Jones 00:54:41 Well, this reads well. It starts with a Latin title, it's a kind of letter, actually written in reply to a letter to somebody who accused me of being rather complacent when ironically enough, I felt anything but that at that time. Accused me of being one of the people who didn't have any troubles in life, or not only me but somebody else too, when we had quite a few of our own that were not too dissimilar from those that the other person was talking about. It's about marriage. It's called, to avoid looking too obvious, "De Profundis Conjugii Vox et Responsum''. It's a serious poem though, more or less. D.G. Jones 00:55:56 Reads "De Profundis Conjugii Vox et Responsum" [from Phrases from Orpheus]. END 01:01:57
Notes:
Eli Mandel reads from An Idiot Joy (Hurtig, 1967), Black and Secret Man (1964), Trio: First Poems (Contact Press, 1954), as well as poems later published in Crusoe: Poems Selected and New (Anansi, 1973). 00:00- George Bowering introduces Eli Mandel and D.G. Jones [INDEX: announces other event: Ira Cohen film showing. Poetry 62 ed. by Eli Mandel and Jean-Guy Pilon: contains long poem by D.G. Jones, Contact Press, D.G. Jones- “Ontario Wasp Poet”/ Eli Mandel-“Western Jewish Poet”, Eli Mandel: An Idiot Joy published by Hurtig press, won Governor General Award, Eli Mandel: Black and Secret Man, D.G. Jones: Phrases from Orpheus Oxford Press] 05:08- Eli Mandel introduces “Signatures” 07:00- Reads “Signatures” 09:27- Reads “Neither Here Nor There” 10:28- Introduces “The Direction is North Until the Pole” [INDEX: Canadian Landscapes, Fleming- Minister of Finance of Federal Government, Political poems] 11:16- Reads “The Direction is North Until the Pole” 13:24- Introduces “Departure” [INDEX: leaving Edmonton] 13:53- Reads “Departure” 14:37- Introduces “Cassandra” [INDEX: Cassandra, Prophetess, Clytemnestra, Agamemnon] 15:39- Reads “Cassandra” 17:00- Reads “The Madness of our Polity” 17:46- Introduces “Whence Cometh Our Help” [INDEX: psalms] 18:04- Reads “Whence Cometh Our Help” 19:03- Introduces “Manner of Suicide” [INDEX: Karl Mennenger’s Man Against Himself, Jewish Daily Prayer Book, Found Poem] 20:11- Reads “Manner of Suicide” 23:24- Introduces “Woman in the Moon” [INDEX: image: moon and sea] 24:30- Reads “Woman in the Moon” 26:12- Reads “The Explanations of the Moon” 27:32- Introduces “Listen, the Sea” [INDEX: King Lear, Keats Sonnet] 28:00- Reads “Listen, the Sea” 29:01- Reads “Marina” 30:46- Introduces “The Apology” [INDEX: George Bowering] 31:17- Reads “The Apology” 34:34- Introduces “Letter to be Opened Later” [INDEX: time capsule] 35:12- Reads “Letter to be Opened Later” 36:09- Introduces “To My Children” [INDEX: lyric poetry, Jewish naming tradition] 37:08- Reads “To My Children” 38:00- Introduces “The Meaning of the I Ching” [INDEX: hexagram ‘earth upon earth’] 39:36- Reads “The Meaning of the I Ching” 43:18- Introduces “Pictures in an Institution” 43:43- Reads “Pictures in an Institution” 47:47- George Bowering introduces D.G. Jones 48:35- D.G. Jones introduces “The Perishing Bird” 51:12- Reads “The Perishing Bird” 53:16- Reads “Summer is a Poem by Auden” 54:41- Introduces “De Profundis Con Yugie Voxette Responsem” 55:56- Reads “De Profundis Con Yugie Voxette Responsem” 01:01:57.14- END OF RECORDING From the Howard Fink list of Poems: 7/2/69 one 5” reel, 3 3/4 one track, mono, 1/2 hour readings are from Mandel’s books An Idiot Joy and Black and Secret Man 1. “Signature” 2. “Neither Here Nor There” 3. “The Direction is North Until the Pole” 4. “Departure” 5. “Cassandra” 6. first line “Being savages, we learn” 7. “Whence Cometh Our Help” 8. “Manner of Suicide” 9. “Woman on the Moon” 10. “The Explanation of the Moon” 11. “Listen, the Sea” 12. “Marina” *note: list of poems not complete.
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File URL:
https://files.spokenweb.ca/concordia/sgw/audio/all_mp3/dg-jones_i006-11-043-2.mp3
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files.spokenweb.ca>concordia>sgw>audio>all_mp3
Duration:
00:46:49
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112.4 MB
Content:
dg-jones_i006-11-04-2.mp3 [File 2 of 2] George Bowering 00:00:00 I'd like to help you welcome now, D.G. Jones. D.G. Jones 00:00:13 I'm going to do this because I'm thirsty. It's a little disturbing but I've had a suspicion that this was becoming true for some time, in the last few years, that pretty soon you won't be able to tell the Jew from the Wasp, anyway. It's getting more disconcerting all the time how similar certain things are between me and Eli Mandel. I just hope he's a very good person and lives a long life and has great success in the future. [Audience laughter]. The main thing I want to read tonight is a little bit like Eli's last poem. [laughter]. But it takes a lot more time to get itself said, for good or ill, and I'd like to read a few, a couple shorter poems anyway, before starting that longer poem which takes up a fair amount of the time. I'll read the first book, I mean...[laughter], I'll read the first poem from the book which old oriental George Bowering told you about at the beginning of the program. This poem's called "The Perishing Bird". D.G. Jones 00:02:53 Reads "The Perishing Bird" [from Phrases from Orpheus]. D.G. Jones 00:05:05 A poem called "Summer is a Poem by Ovid" . D.G. Jones 00:05:20 Reads "Summer is a Poem by Ovid". D.G. Jones 00:06:35 Well, this reads well. It starts with a Latin title, it's a kind of letter, actually written in reply to a letter to somebody who accused me of being rather complacent when ironically enough, I felt anything but that at that time. Accused me of being one of the people who didn't have any troubles in life, or not only me but somebody else too, when we had quite a few of our own that were not too dissimilar from those that the other person was talking about. It's about marriage. It's called, to avoid looking too obvious, "De Profundis Conjugii Vox et Responsum''. It's a serious poem though, more or less. D.G. Jones 00:07:49 Reads “De Profundis Conjugii Vox et Responsum” [from Phrases from Orpheus]. Unknown 00:13:55 [Cut or edit made in tape. Unknown amount of time elapsed]. D.G. Jones 00:13:56 ...features of it, particularly carved doors or doors with glass panels carved, and a fountain, whoops. Wrong poem [audience laughter], same person [audience laughter]. The other one was written without any picture, this was written with a picture, "On a Picture of Your House". D.G. Jones 00:14:49 Reads "On a Picture of Your House" [from Phrases from Orpheus]. D.G. Jones 00:16:44 This poem is the long poem I referred to, it's a kind of confessional poem, it's only about, I suppose, ten years behind Robert Lowell and the other American poets who have been writing what the critics now call confessional poetry, which is about par, I suppose. This poem was more or less actually complete several years ago, but I got so many things into the poem I wasn't sure how I was going to get out. And I've dickied around with it and possibly added a few more things, and finally I kept what I had in the end anyway, which was simply a way of ducking out I suspect. Though I hope there's some kind of peculiar relationship to the end, and everything else. I haven't been able to find a title for it. "Night Thoughts", might do, but somebody used that. But it's something along this line: the situation, the scheme is to present a kind of series of reminiscences, mediations, memories which disintegrate and become a little more peculiar as time goes on. Then suddenly stops, breaks off with morning. And it's set more or less around my cottage that I had, in Ontario, which wasn't far from where I was born. This is written in sections but I won't bother reading all the numbers, I'll just pause and go on. D.G. Jones 00:19:00 Reads unnamed poem. D.G. Jones 00:41:22 Excuse me, I'll read the last point, I was almost there, but I think I'll skip that part. D.G. Jones 00:41:30 Resumes reading unnamed poem. D.G. Jones 00:42:35 Excuse me, I didn't feel I was reading that very well. Sorry, it is perhaps a little long. I'll finish quickly. I'd like to just read something a little different. I'll read two poems, one called "Spring Flowers", which will be the first. D.G. Jones 00:43:22 Reads "Spring Flowers" [published later in Under the Thunder the Flowers Light up the Earth] D.G. Jones 00:43:56 I seem to be running out of steam. There's one here that's short enough I should be able to get all the way through it. It's called "Under the Thunder", and that's the first line. D.G. Jones 00:44:15 Reads "Under the Thunder" [poem read is the title of a later publication, Under the Thunder the Flowers Light up the Earth]. D.G. Jones 00:44:21 I'll try one more [audience laughter]. This was written for a number of people who got together--to form a society of a somewhat antiquated name, The League of Canadian Poets , who met in Toronto in October 1968. It's called "To Certain Poets Who Met in Toronto, October 1968" [audience laughter]. D.G. Jones 00:45:03 Reads "To Certain Poets Who Met in Toronto, October 1968". D.G. Jones 00:46:40 I think I'm sorry, I've run out of steam but... END 00:46:49 [Cut off abruptly].
Notes:
D.G. Jones reads from Phrases from Orpheus (Oxford University Press, 1967), as well as a few that were published later in Under the Thunder the Flowers Light up the Earth (Coach House Press, 1977) and an unnamed long poem that may have been published in Poetry 62 (Ryerson Press 1961). 00:00- George Bowering introduces D.G Jones [for full introduction, see I006-11-043.1 or I086-11-34] 00:13- D.G. Jones introduces “The Perishing Bird” [INDEX: Eli Mandel, George Bowering, Phrases from Orpheus; not on Howard Fink List of Poems] 02:53- Reads “The Perishing Bird” 05:20- Reads “Summer is a Poem by Ovid” [INDEX: not on Howard Fink List of Poems] 06:35- Introduces “De Profundis Conjugii Vox et Responsum” [INDEX: not on Howard Fink List of Poems.] 13:56- [CUT] Introduces “On a Picture of Your House” 14:49- Reads “On a Picture of Your House” 16:44- Introduces untitled poem, first line “The night is mild and the young moon...” [INDEX: confessional poem, Robert Lowell, process of writing, Ontario] 19:00- Reads first line “The night is mild and the young moon...” 42:35- Interrupts poem, introduces “Spring Flowers” 43:22- Reads “Spring Flowers” 43:56- Introduces “Under the Thunder” 44:15- Reads “Under the Thunder” 44:21- Introduces “To Certain Poets Who Met in Toronto, October 1968” [INDEX: The League of Canadian Poets meeting in Toronto, October 1968] 45:49- Reads “To Certain Poets Who Met in Toronto, October 1968” 46:49- END OF RECORDING
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Mandel and Jones Tape Box 2 - Spine
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Mandel and Jones Tape Box 1 - Back
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Mandel and Jones Tape Box 1 - Front
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Dates

Date:
1969 3 7
Type:
Performance Date
Source:
Previous researcher

LOCATION

Address:
1455, Boul de Maisonneuve Ouest, Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Venue:
Hall Building
Latitude:
45.4972758
Longitude:
-73.57893043
URL:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/22080570
Notes:
Exact venue location unknown

CONTENT

Contents:
eli_mandel_i086-11-034.mp3 [File 1 of 2] George Bowering 00:00:00 ...start with the poesy, I've been asked to announce that on Friday, i.e., what's this the seventh? Two weeks from tonight, March the 21st at 9 o’clock. in Room 653, [Barnes (?)] willing, there will be a program, I guess within the auspices of the Fine Arts department, the Ira Cohen , New York film maker, and poet will be showing three of his films, as far as I know for the first time in Montreal . That's two weeks tonight at 9 in 653. When I was asked to introduce Eli Mandel , and D.G. Jones , I said, 'that's ridiculous', Canadian poetry being the way it is, they already know each other. And after the moment of hilarity I was brought to my senses, and I began to think that it really did make a lot of sense that we do have Doug Jones and Eli Mandel reading on the same program. I can remember in 1961 when Poetry 62 came out, Canadian poetry being the way it is [audience laughter], Poetry 62 was edited by Jean-Guy Pilon I believe and Eli Mandel, being a bilingual book, and at the time the poem that struck me as the most interesting was the long poem by D.G. Jones, the most interesting in that anthology, and I therefore, felt kind of warm, without having them, to both of them to Doug's poem and Eli's great taste for putting it in the anthology. And then I thought that there was this kind of confluence going on and I began to see all kinds of other things happening too, for instance, they both had their first books published by Contact Press, that published the first books of most of the important Canadian poets, and they now have seen their careers sort of criss-cross one another in a kind of a funny way because they each have three books, except that Eli has three and a third, which is also kind of Canadian, and I thought it was kind of interesting because not only is there a kind of parallel going on, and they both in 1967, for instance, turned out very good books of poetry, but there's a kind of uh, they'll be kind of an interesting contrast I think in tonight's program because I've always considered that Doug Jones is sort of the best of the Ontario Wasp poets [audience laughter], and Eli Mandel is the best of the Western Jewish poets and they both deal with essential problems that seem to expose their two opposing and therefore contrary and conjugal, you might almost say, attitudes towards the business of writing poems. So we're going to start off with Eli's reading, and then have something like a ten minute break, and then we'll have Doug Jones' reading. I should mention that of those two books, Eli's is called An Idiot Joy and it shared the Governor General's Award given in 1968, and published by Hurtig, Edmonton publisher, who is very pleased to get the Governor General's Award, and Doug Jones' book is Phrases from Orpheus, published by Oxford Press , two books that would be well worth investing both your heaven, forbid, money and your imagination upon. I'm probably not going to say anything before D.G. Jones comes to read, so I'm not expecting to come up here and spout for five or ten minutes before he reads and I'm not going to spout any longer before Eli reads. So I'd first like to introduce to you Mr. Eli Mandel. Audience 00:05:01 Applause. Eli Mandel 00:05:29 I think George might have carried the parallel of contrasts and comparisons a little further had he wanted to, or chosen to, or had he known about certain very intimate details about Doug's life and my life. But I don't propose to go into those myself right now either [audience laughter]. Instead, I'm going to read, primarily from An Idiot Joy, but also from Black and Secret Man, which was an earlier book and also from one or two manuscript poems that I've been working on recently. I want to start with a poem called "Signatures" and although I can say a lot about a number of poems that I've written, I'm not sure I can say much about this except that as will be obvious to you I think, the imagery is drawn from the Vietnam conflict, though I don't know that the poem is necessarily about that. Can you hear me with this mic? Some people at the back are saying 'no'. Can you hear me now? Eli Mandel 00:07:00 Reads "Signatures" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:09:27 This poem is called "Neither Here Nor There". Eli Mandel 00:09:33 Reads "Neither Here Nor There" [published later in Crusoe: Poems Selected and New]. Eli Mandel 00:10:28 This is a poem from Black and Secret Man and it's called "The Direction is North Until the Pole", and I suppose it's one of the few poems I've written that I would call a Canadian poem, that is to say it draws on a number of specific images from the Canadian landscape and therefore I have to annotate this poem. I have to tell you that the Fleming mentioned in the last line of the poem was once a Minister of Finance in the federal government, that just proves how transient political poems really are. I think all the rest of this should be clear, hockey is a game that's played in Canada . Eli Mandel 00:11:16 Reads "The Direction is North Until the Pole" from Black and Secret Man. Eli Mandel 00:13:24 This is one of my prophetic poems. I think I've written a lot of really prophetic poems. This poem is called "Departure" and it tells about leaving Edmonton. Everybody who has read the poem believes that I wrote it when I decided to leave Edmonton, either for the first time or the second time, I've left there twice, as a matter of fact, I didn't write it when I decided to leave in Edmonton, I wrote it when I arrived in Edmonton. Eli Mandel 00:13:53 Reads "Departure" [from Black and Secret Man]. Eli Mandel 00:14:37 A little poem about one of my perversions, this is about making love to pregnant women, I think, I'm not sure if there's a technical name for that but the perversion appears in the poem. The poem's called "Cassandra" and it's about a prophetess, Cassandra , you'll remember was the woman that Agamemnon brought home with him to his wife, Clytemnestra , and this, so angered Clytemnestra, aside from the fact that Agamemnon had killed one of their daughters, that she killed Agamemnon, but Cassandra was a Prophetess, like Prophetesses, was given the power to tell the truth and was never believed. Some of the imagery in this poem is taken from the story of Cassandra, and the rest from my perversions. Eli Mandel 00:15:39 Reads "Cassandra" [from Black and Secret Man]. Eli Mandel 00:17:00 Reads "The Madness of our Polity" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:17:46 "Whence Cometh Our Help?", the title is taken from the Psalms , and there are a number of images of the Psalms, in the poem. Or images from the Psalms. Eli Mandel 00:18:04 Reads "Whence Cometh Our Help?" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:19:03 This poem is called "Manner of Suicide", and it's the closest thing I've come to writing a found poem, in that all the material in the poem, the words are taken from two sources, except for the first line. One is Karl Menninger's Man Against Himself and the other, the Jewish Daily Prayer Book. There are twenty-six ways listed here of committing suicide, they're all ways that Menninger lists and documents, and he lists them in the order in which I give them here, and this list, which I give, is then followed by some comments he makes about those ways of committing suicide and a passage from the prayer book. Eli Mandel 00:20:11 Reads "Manner of Suicide" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:23:24 In An Idiot Joy I wrote a number of poems which were, which used two primary images, the image of the moon and the image of the sea, and these are love poems. I suppose the interesting thing in them to me, aside from the personal sense that I feel about them, is that with each of the poems, whether it's with the image of the moon or the image of the sea, or both, I keep trying different technical things in the poetry, and so far as I'm concerned, I've done some more interesting technical things in this than anywhere else, but primarily, the poems talk about the moon and the sea, and seabirds and women and a woman. Eli Mandel 00:24:30 Reads "Woman in the Moon" from An Idiot Joy. Eli Mandel 00:26:12 Reads "The Explanations of the Moon” [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:27:32 This is one of the sea poems, in the sequence, called "Listen, the Sea", and the title comes from King Lear , though actually, I had become aware of it of course when I knew that Keats had written a sonnet using this, but the technique is neither Shakespearean nor Keatsean, nothing of the kind. Eli Mandel 00:28:00 Reads "Listen, the Sea" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:29:01 And "Marina", who is a daughter of the sea. Eli Mandel 00:29:09 Reads "Marina" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:30:46 Well something quite different. I think I should dedicate this to George Bowering, because I wrote the poem after I had been… Unknown 00:30:56 [Cut or edit made in tape. Unknown amount of time elapsed]. Eli Mandel 00:30:57 And I would have to apologize for this, but the last thing in the world that I wanted to do was apologize, I'd prefer anything but that, I mean this is pretty simple-minded simplistic psychology, of the worst order I suppose, I just--I'm writing a poem about how stupid I felt at that particular moment. Eli Mandel 00:31:17 Reads "The Apology" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:34:34 This is the poem I like to think of as the one that one would put in a time capsule, it's called "Letter to be Opened Later" and presumably each one of us wants to immortalize oneself, and imagine, you know, two thousand years later the time capsule being opened and then they can read your letter. This is my letter, to be opened later. Eli Mandel 00:35:12 Reads "Letter to be Opened Later" [published later in Crusoe: Poems Selected and New ]. Eli Mandel 00:36:09 I'm going to read a lyric, it's a very short poem, but I'd like to read this one anyhow. It's called "To My Children" and it's based upon both an odd and rather terrifying coincidence in my life and a curious Jewish tradition. The Jewish tradition is that you name a child after the nearest dead relative, the relative who has died most recently and who is closest to one, and it so happened that my mother died, my daughter was born, my father died and my son was born. And I wrote this poem about the naming of the children. It's called "To My Children". Eli Mandel 00:37:08 Reads "To My Children" [from Black and Secret Man]. Eli Mandel 00:38:00 Now I'm going to finish this reading with two poems, one is called "The Meaning of the I Ching" and the other "Cosmos: the Giant Rose"--three poems, I'm sorry. I'm going to read "Pictures in an Institution" as well. "The Meaning of the I Ching", the I Ching as you probably know is a book of divination, it's the oldest book of divination known, and when I first heard about it, I looked at the book before I opened it and I wondered about the very simple notion of a book that old telling my future. How could I be contained in this ancient book? And I wrote this poem. Now it seems to me that there is something remarkable here, it's one claim I will make for the poem, at least, in the poem, is the first time I used the phrase "earth upon earth" and the very first hexagram that I cast when I opened the book. The book tells fortunes with what are called hexagrams and hexagrams are given various names, the very first one that I cast was the hexagram "earth upon earth" and that's simply something that happened whether it means that the poem is prophetic or magical, I don't know. Eli Mandel 00:39:36 Reads "The Meaning of the I Ching" [from An Idiot Joy]. Eli Mandel 00:43:18 I'm going to finish now reading "Pictures in an Institution". This is the most personal poem I've ever written, and I don't want to read anything after that, so I'm going to finish with this. "Pictures in an Institution". I think all I need to say about this is that it plays off notices against some personal experiences and I think that'll be plain enough. Eli Mandel 00:43:43 Reads "Pictures in an Institution" [from Trio: First Poems by Gael Turnbull, Phyllis Webb, and Eli Mandel]. Eli Mandel 00:47:40 Thank you. Audience 00:47:41 Applause. Unknown 00:47:51 [Cut or edit made in tape. Unknown amount of time elapsed]. Unknown 00:47:53 Ambient Sound [voices]. George Bowering 00:48:22 I'd like to help you welcome now, D.G. Jones. Audience 00:48:27 Applause. D.G. Jones 00:48:60 I'm going to do this because I'm thirsty. It's a little disturbing but I've had a suspicion that this was becoming true for some time, in the last few years, that pretty soon you won't be able to tell the Jew from the Wasp, anyway [audience laughter]. It's getting more disconcerting all the time how similar certain things are between me and Eli Mandel [audience laughter]. I just hope he's a very good person and lives a long life and has great success in the future [audience laughter]. The main thing I want to read tonight is a little bit like Eli's last poem [audience laughter]. But it takes a lot more time to get itself said, for good or ill, and I'd like to read a few, a couple shorter poems anyway, before starting that longer poem which takes up a fair amount of the time. I'll read the first book from the, I mean...[laughter], I'll read the first poem from the book which old oriental George Bowering told you about at the beginning of the program. This poem's called "The Perishing Bird". D.G. Jones 00:51:12 Reads "The Perishing Bird" [from Phrases from Orpheus]. D.G. Jones 00:53:16 A poem called "Summer is a Poem by Ovid". D.G. Jones 00:53:34 Reads "Summer is a Poem by Ovid" [from Phrases from Orpheus]. D.G. Jones 00:54:41 Well, this reads well. It starts with a Latin title, it's a kind of letter, actually written in reply to a letter to somebody who accused me of being rather complacent when ironically enough, I felt anything but that at that time. Accused me of being one of the people who didn't have any troubles in life, or not only me but somebody else too, when we had quite a few of our own that were not too dissimilar from those that the other person was talking about. It's about marriage. It's called, to avoid looking too obvious, "De Profundis Conjugii Vox et Responsum''. It's a serious poem though, more or less. D.G. Jones 00:55:56 Reads "De Profundis Conjugii Vox et Responsum" [from Phrases from Orpheus]. END 01:01:57 dg-jones_i006-11-04-2.mp3 [File 2 of 2] George Bowering 00:00:00 I'd like to help you welcome now, D.G. Jones. D.G. Jones 00:00:13 I'm going to do this because I'm thirsty. It's a little disturbing but I've had a suspicion that this was becoming true for some time, in the last few years, that pretty soon you won't be able to tell the Jew from the Wasp, anyway. It's getting more disconcerting all the time how similar certain things are between me and Eli Mandel. I just hope he's a very good person and lives a long life and has great success in the future. [Audience laughter]. The main thing I want to read tonight is a little bit like Eli's last poem. [laughter]. But it takes a lot more time to get itself said, for good or ill, and I'd like to read a few, a couple shorter poems anyway, before starting that longer poem which takes up a fair amount of the time. I'll read the first book, I mean...[laughter], I'll read the first poem from the book which old oriental George Bowering told you about at the beginning of the program. This poem's called "The Perishing Bird". D.G. Jones 00:02:53 Reads "The Perishing Bird" [from Phrases from Orpheus]. D.G. Jones 00:05:05 A poem called "Summer is a Poem by Ovid" . D.G. Jones 00:05:20 Reads "Summer is a Poem by Ovid". D.G. Jones 00:06:35 Well, this reads well. It starts with a Latin title, it's a kind of letter, actually written in reply to a letter to somebody who accused me of being rather complacent when ironically enough, I felt anything but that at that time. Accused me of being one of the people who didn't have any troubles in life, or not only me but somebody else too, when we had quite a few of our own that were not too dissimilar from those that the other person was talking about. It's about marriage. It's called, to avoid looking too obvious, "De Profundis Conjugii Vox et Responsum''. It's a serious poem though, more or less. D.G. Jones 00:07:49 Reads “De Profundis Conjugii Vox et Responsum” [from Phrases from Orpheus]. Unknown 00:13:55 [Cut or edit made in tape. Unknown amount of time elapsed]. D.G. Jones 00:13:56 ...features of it, particularly carved doors or doors with glass panels carved, and a fountain, whoops. Wrong poem [audience laughter], same person [audience laughter]. The other one was written without any picture, this was written with a picture, "On a Picture of Your House". D.G. Jones 00:14:49 Reads "On a Picture of Your House" [from Phrases from Orpheus]. D.G. Jones 00:16:44 This poem is the long poem I referred to, it's a kind of confessional poem, it's only about, I suppose, ten years behind Robert Lowell and the other American poets who have been writing what the critics now call confessional poetry, which is about par, I suppose. This poem was more or less actually complete several years ago, but I got so many things into the poem I wasn't sure how I was going to get out. And I've dickied around with it and possibly added a few more things, and finally I kept what I had in the end anyway, which was simply a way of ducking out I suspect. Though I hope there's some kind of peculiar relationship to the end, and everything else. I haven't been able to find a title for it. "Night Thoughts", might do, but somebody used that. But it's something along this line: the situation, the scheme is to present a kind of series of reminiscences, mediations, memories which disintegrate and become a little more peculiar as time goes on. Then suddenly stops, breaks off with morning. And it's set more or less around my cottage that I had, in Ontario, which wasn't far from where I was born. This is written in sections but I won't bother reading all the numbers, I'll just pause and go on. D.G. Jones 00:19:00 Reads unnamed poem. D.G. Jones 00:41:22 Excuse me, I'll read the last point, I was almost there, but I think I'll skip that part. D.G. Jones 00:41:30 Resumes reading unnamed poem. D.G. Jones 00:42:35 Excuse me, I didn't feel I was reading that very well. Sorry, it is perhaps a little long. I'll finish quickly. I'd like to just read something a little different. I'll read two poems, one called "Spring Flowers", which will be the first. D.G. Jones 00:43:22 Reads "Spring Flowers" [published later in Under the Thunder the Flowers Light up the Earth] D.G. Jones 00:43:56 I seem to be running out of steam. There's one here that's short enough I should be able to get all the way through it. It's called "Under the Thunder", and that's the first line. D.G. Jones 00:44:15 Reads "Under the Thunder" [poem read is the title of a later publication, Under the Thunder the Flowers Light up the Earth]. D.G. Jones 00:44:21 I'll try one more [audience laughter]. This was written for a number of people who got together--to form a society of a somewhat antiquated name, The League of Canadian Poets , who met in Toronto in October 1968. It's called "To Certain Poets Who Met in Toronto, October 1968" [audience laughter]. D.G. Jones 00:45:03 Reads "To Certain Poets Who Met in Toronto, October 1968". D.G. Jones 00:46:40 I think I'm sorry, I've run out of steam but... END 00:46:49 [Cut off abruptly].
Notes:
Eli Mandel reads from An Idiot Joy (Hurtig, 1967), Black and Secret Man (1964), Trio: First Poems (Contact Press, 1954), as well as poems later published in Crusoe: Poems Selected and New (Anansi, 1973). D.G. Jones reads from Phrases from Orpheus (Oxford University Press, 1967), as well as a few that were published later in Under the Thunder the Flowers Light up the Earth (Coach House Press, 1977) and an unnamed long poem that may have been published in Poetry 62 (Ryerson Press 1961).

NOTES

Type:
General
Note:
Year-Specific Information: In 1969, Mandel was a professor at York University in Toronto, and he had published The Poetry of Irving Layton. He was also working on an anthology Five Modern Canadian Poets, published in 1970. In 1969, D.G. Jones had founded Ellipse, and was teaching at the Universite de Sherbrooke.
Type:
General
Note:
Local Connections: Though no direct connections to Sir George Williams University are known, Eli Mandel’s work has been essential and influential in promoting the work of Canadian authors and poets, through his anthologizing and editing, his essay writing as well as his poetry. D.G. Jones has had a very influential role in Canadian and in specific Quebec poetry, as a leader in the translations of both English and French poetry. His criticism of Canadian literature places him with Margaret Atwood and Northrop Frye in shaping Canada’s literary canon and its literature. Jones was associated with poets such as Bowering, Dudek and Layton and F.R. Scott.
Type:
Cataloguer
Note:
Original transcript, research, introduction and edits by Celyn Harding-Jones Additional research and edits by Ali Barillaro
Type:
Preservation
Note:
2 reel-to-reel tapes>2 CDs>2 digital files

RELATED WORKS

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Stubbs, Andrew. “Mandel, Eli (1922-1992)”. Routledge Encyclopedia of Post-Colonial Literatures in English. Benson, Eugene; Connolly, L.W. (eds). London: Routledge, 1994. 2 vols.
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https://www.worldcat.org/title/encyclopedia-of-post-colonial-literatures-in-english-vol2/oclc/1156824609&referer=brief_results
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Woodcock, George. "Jones, D.G." The Oxford Companion to Canadian Literature. Eugene Benson and William Toye. Oxford University Press 2001.
URL:
https://www.worldcat.org/title/oxford-companion-to-canadian-literature/oclc/605246871&referer=brief_results

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