CLASSIFICATION
Swallow ID:
5357
Partner Institution:
Simon Fraser University
Source Collection Label:
Reading in BC Collection
Sub Series:
Reading in BC Collection
ITEM DESCRIPTION
Title:
bp Nichol interview with Pauline Butling on November 13, 1986 part 1 of 2 #748
Title Source:
cassette and j-card
Language:
English
Production Context:
Documentary recording
Genre:
Interview
Identifiers:
[]
Rights
Rights:
Copyright Not Evaluated (CNE)
CREATORS
Name:
Butling, Pauline
Dates:
1939-
Role:
"Interviewer"
Name:
Nichol, B. P.
Dates:
1944-1988
Role:
"Speaker"
Notes:
Nichol, Barrie Phillip
CONTRIBUTORS
MATERIAL DESCRIPTION
Image:
Recording Type:
Analogue
AV Type:
Audio
Material Designation:
Cassette
Physical Composition:
Magnetic Tape
Extent:
1/8 inch
Track Configuration:
2 track
Playback Mode:
Stereo
Sound Quality:
Excellent
Physical Condition:
Good
Other Physical Description:
Black and white clear jewel case with J-card
DIGITAL FILE DESCRIPTION
Channel Field:
Stereo
Sample Rate:
44.1 kHz
Duration:
T00:47:38
Size:
61.9 MB
Bitrate:
32 bit
Encoding:
WAV for master files and .MP3 for online files
Channel Field:
Stereo
Sample Rate:
44.1 kHz
Duration:
T00:47:41
Size:
63.1 MB
Bitrate:
32 bit
Encoding:
WAV for master files and .MP3 for online files
Dates
Date:
1986-11-13
Type:
Performance Date
Source:
J-card
LOCATION
Address:
[Nelson, British Columbia, Canada?]
Latitude:
49.4931
Longitude:
-117.2907
CONTENT
Contents:
Side Track No. Comments
One 010 Tape begins mid-interview with bp Nichol about The Plunkett Papers and The Undiscovered Country, a long unpublished poem he spent seven years writing and then threw away. He felt he was romanticizing, turning ordinary human experience into a mythic dimension; but wanted to get back to what is heroic on its own terms, and what is interesting in everyday life
033 He discusses Burke Sproxton’s book Headframe about Flin Flon
044 Pauline Butling : that romanticizing impulse has plagued Nichol from the start. How does he resist it?
047 bpN: What is seductive about it is a voice tone he can get into. It can become the “lyric I” or the “self-aggrandizing I” that is treacherous. There’s no modulation of tone
069 bpN: In the Plunkett Hotel is a new poem, but is the best writing out of the experience of his earlier work
093 “Plunkett Hotel” comes out of a maternal grandmother’s family reunion Nichol attended in Plunkett, Saskatchewan
181 Butling reads quote of Frank Davey’s criticizing bp Nichol’s work as irrelevant “visual poetry” and stating that poetry is still a language, and language of sound, rhythms, stress and pitch, and not just visual shapes
204 Unexplained search for a source (to the aforementioned quote??) Nichol speaks of Alfred Kallir, who wrote Sign and Design, a psychogenetic (?) history of the alphabet; first published a monograph in 1944 called V is for Victory, then expounded on alphabet of the history of the world in Sign and Design, (an influential text for Nichol)
221 Butling asks about The Flower Poem, recorded on High Barnett cassettes
266 Masaoka Shiki – Japanese poet mentioned by Nichol. Nichol says he is doing a paraphrase of Shiki’s haiku from his First Record of my Peonies
276 PB: Likes context, and says criticism must establish a context in which the work can be read
283 bpN: Criticism is a written record of a reading process and provides the reader with a different accessing of the book
301 Discussion of bp Nichol’s use of epigrams – Epi stands for epigrams a reversal of the technique he later gets into with the mathematical signs
342 Bp Nichol refers to the Lost Literature of Medieval England; one of his fascinations is with works that don’t last. In this book on books which were written, but no copies exist, was a reference to Buamundus; a character which has only one reference in English literature. A child is named Buamundus as a joke, but we don’t know what the joke means
363 References to the meanings of crow
372 Historically there are 2 St. Valentines. One of them has the crow as his totem, found in the Dictionary of English Saints
382 Butling is looking for themes of the multiples of doubles
397 Nichol talks about returning to the idea of a historical narrative in The Martyrology in Book 1 and Book 6
405 Nichol talks about taking 2 actual disciples of Christ about whom nothing is known and using the historical actuality that real people provide
423 Butling asks about the rhetorical voice in Waves Against the Boat as the one Nichol is always resisting. Is it o.k. to use it here because it is historical?
424 Nichol says he is not taking personal history and claiming for himself privilege by being connected to mythic figures. If we say our grandparents were mythic, we are saying we are one with the gods. This is self-aggrandizement, two generations removed, whereas Nichol is using the tools of history to describe a certain situation and to deal with the problem in writing that kind of historical narrative
433 Continental Trance is the Canadian travel poem taken on. Butling calls it the apocalyptic narrative
438 Butling asks if Nichol investigated the research on the Bible in connection to the two figures Nichol uses. Refers to the debate around the figure of Daniel
444 Nichol refers to an MA thesis of a friend on James, the younger brother of the Lord – Jesus’ younger brother, used in his research, as well as alternate histories of the church, documents written by drooling fanatics, non-drooler documents, etc.
454 Nichol found information to prove the Catholic Church did wipe out the English Christian Church, that was seen as a pagan tradition
467 Nichol talks about a piece of work that is unnamed. Butling asks where Nichol is “at” in terms of Book 5. Suggests a real sense of loss
491 The notion of imperfection is crucial to the whole beginning idea of The Martyrology. Failure, imperfection, success has to be there structurally. It is an argument with the notion that history was on a superhuman scale rather than “just a bunch of assholes that went around beating people up”
516 Discussion of Vander Zalm leading people down the garden path with simplicity in poetics vs. the difficult structure of The Martyrology
530 Butling comments on the structure of The Martyrology. Bp Nichol suggests people approach his poetry like music and take what they like from it
536 Nichol tells anecdote of a reading to students at Mohawk College in the 70’s
580 Butling: How do you see these books interacting with one another?
582 Book 6 began with the imperfection of prophecy; up until then The Martyrology consisted of separate books begun and finished individually. Nichol discusses how this changes with the carryover of themes in Book 5 to Book 6. The twelve chains of Book 5 became the six books of Book 6
Two 007 Side Two Tape 1 begins
015 Nichol discusses family reunion and his poetic themes; “The grace of the moment,” in which one finds the strength to deal with death
084 Butling questions the use of form in The Martyrology
093 Nichol discusses the dialogue between closed form and open form
107 Nichol on inspiration and states of mind and The Book of Hours
165 Butling on the arbitrariness of forms and the contemporary poet, does this form avoid the poet’s ego?
188 Nichol discusses the structures “The Plunkett Hotel”, and Continental Trance
197 Butling: Does taking those arbitrary forms free you from thinking about form?
199 Nichol says it creates an extra tension, an external factor and elaborates briefly
220 Butling: Does the punning and word play get you away from intention?
223 Nichol talks about the objectivity these bring in to the work. Point of view creates reality and its own argument
240 Butling asks if the post-modern poets have dealt with the modernist question of absence through form
284 Butling notes that word play hasn’t become dull or repetitive in Nichol’s work
295 Nichol discusses formal advance of structure in Books I-VI
317 Nichol talks about ideas for a new form for Book 10; The Bard project, a kind of Frankenstein monster of form in which he would work his way through every closed and open form
440 They discuss Phyllis Webb’s poetry
474 Gossip about the Montreal scene, F.R. Scott, Phyllis Webb etc.
493 Nichol talks about his early teaching history and university
517 Nichol on Adder magazine at King Edward, dadaists, Tish, and his first published poem
549 The Tish movement and Frank Davey
556 Nichol reminisces about UBC, readings by Freddy Douglas and Kurt Lang, Bill Bissett
575 Nichol remembers student protest against Bay of Pigs Invasion, 1962
597 1963 Vancouver Poetry Conference. Nichol says he is glad to have missed the conference because of the effect its influence would have had on his writing (ie. Olson)
609 End of Side Two
Notes:
SFU BC Readings formatting
NOTES
Type:
General
Note:
BP Nichol interviewed by Pauline Butling
November 13, 1986
(Nelson, B.C. ?)
side 1: 45:47
DOLBY B
part I
#748
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